207: Ben's Ultra-Shuffling Diesel Engine
Ben Davies
FEATURED WORDS:
Ben's synonyms to self: water (n.), laugh (v.), driven (adj.)
Ben's words: Likes: onomatopoeia (n.) Dislikes: hate (n.)
Wish's synonyms for Ben: Yōki (n.), teeming (v.), auriferous (adj.)
Essential word from this episode: vigour (n.)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
"And this is something I think about a lot in life. I can only control what I can actually control. It's like an obvious thing, but I never really get annoyed or frustrated with things that are outside of my control." - Ben.
As your friendships blossom, there are moments where you share a peal of laughter and then some serious "getting-to-know" questions to dig deeper into your friend's thoughts and angles that you may not have yet seen. Ben's a go-getter with such an effervescent personality. Join the eavesdropping on our conversation about a delirious injury that teaches about life and then some.
MAIN TOPICS:
00:00 - Episode intro
03:45 - Ben's intro
04:03 - Ben's synonyms, explained
08:01 - Ben's life in between Singapore & Barcelona
09:35 - Striking a balance
12:48 - Getting older and wiser?
16:05 - Where do our values come from?
18:40 - Ben's other side
20:55 - Inner and outer voice
23:41 - Our alter egos
25:45 - Becoming an ultramarathon-er
31:51 - Ben as a kid vs now 33:25 - Ben could've been a...
35:42 - What did a young Wish want to do
37:23 - Choosing Hope International
40:57 - Most difficult challenge for Ben
42:39 - Very British Ben
44:31 - Awww
48:39 - Ben's important words to share
49:52 - Wish's important words to share
52:35 - Outro
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
QUOTABLE QUOTES
"It's just like picking up a really lovely old pair of shoes that you'd worn in."
"You kind of have to manage your energy levels and some days you just get out of balance or you have three or four months where you've really been intense and then you need to take a break. "
"I do think often about what journey the person has been on. When you meet somebody new and you do business or you connect with somebody, everybody's got so many different inputs that they've had it's just fascinating to try and understand that, but then sometimes it's almost impossible because you don't know whether that parental input actually pushed the person in the other direction or whether that group of friends kind of pulled them along."
"... always try and treat people the way I'd want to be treated. It is, I'd say, quite gentle, quite British. I'd probably become overly polite, overly helpful to try and help the situation along. But, yeah, I definitely like things to be done right."
"So that's still I still have in my mind how you behave to people, that it could be put onto a Netflix series and then see a video of the way you're behaving to a waiter or a waitress or a traffic warden or someone."
"I think when I listen to people write and talk about whether you're in your personal life or in the work life, I know it's not always possible to be completely the same in scenarios. We need to sometimes, we need to adapt."
"But I do think that's quite important to positively vision and positively think about things, because then you don't leave anything on the field, you don't leave anything behind. You can then look back, even if it doesn't work, say, Well, I went into it 110%, even if it doesn't work out, which sometimes that's what happens. At least you've gone into it positively."
"I think the mental switch off of the ultramarathons has always appealed to me more than the actual."
"I think then, as you get older, you see people, you start comparing and you look and you realise, wow, that's really hard work, that's hustling, that's pushing it, and then you kind of reset your boundaries."
"So I think the challenge is to know exactly where your strength is and also just to keep going."
"So at a minimum, let's try and have a laugh, let's try and have laughter in our lives and have people around us that we enjoy and hopefully we can bring a bit of light and positivity ourselves."
"”Youth is not a time of life; it is a state of mind; it is not a matter of rosy cheeks, red lips and supple knees; it is a matter of the will, quality of the imagination, a vigor of the emotions; it is the freshness of the deep springs of life.” - Samuel Ullman
REFERENCES FROM TODAY'S CONVERSATION
Dragon Ball Z Wiki
Hadouken Wiki
Ultramarathon organisation that Ben joined (Ultra X)
Why do our feet swell up in the heat?
Jamie Sparks and Sam Heward (Ultra X Founders)
LISTEN, RATE, REVIEW, SUBSCRIBE & SHARE WITH YOUR FRIENDS!
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Wish 00:00:02
As humans, we are all defined by several synonyms or words that represent who we are to ourselves and others. Hence, this is for you. Hello, dear humanity. Welcome to Human Thesaurus. I'm your host, Wish Ronquillo Peacocke. If you want this kind of content, subscribe now. Episodes are released weekly.
Wish 00:00:02
Ben is a lifelong foodie, developing wine drinker and trainee cigar smoker who gets a lot of energy from making human connections and enabling others to achieve their potential. His day job combines this with his other passion, which is talking to people. A damn lot. Trust me. He's currently living in Singapore for twelve years with the rock in his life and her name is Dilpa and she's so lovely. They now spend a few months a year in Barcelona. Who doesn't want that? He runs a boutique executive recruitment firm with an awesome team of 100% virtual, even before the pandemic of 85 people in 18 different countries. He fits this role because he loves the cultures, backgrounds and learning as he gets every day. With such a diverse team and exposure to a variety of industries and companies around the world in recent years he has been lucky to invest in various startups plus advise and coach founders. Investments include an ultra marathon business and mental health awareness and also he's got access business focused on Southeast Asia. He is also an active board director for Hope International, a charity supporting the neglected poor. As if he's a ball of energy, so he also is a tennis student, very slowly becoming a more flexible yoga student and a very stubborn ultra marathon shuffler. So I met Ben through my husband's friends here in Singapore probably, let's say over a decade ago, but we weren't really close enough. But it's a very fun group, we always mix around, we dance a lot and what I love about this group is that the closeness comes naturally because you travel with them. This group is very organised, they would organise a trip, eight months, nine months, a year before, and all of us will show up when we can. Ben is part of this and all the more that we travel together, all the more that I've come to know Ben and also his beautiful wife, Dilpa. We just hit it off naturally. We both love dancing, we both love just huge laughters and no nonsense, a lot of sarcasm and really nobody gets offended, which I love. So we have the same humour and I really just appreciate this guy especially. We're just getting closer and closer now that we're back in Singapore, so I appreciate all of that.
Wish 00:00:02
My synonyms for Ben are Yōki as a noun, teeming as a verb and auriferous as an adjective. Within this conversation, you'll further understand why I describe him as such. So here he is, Ben DaviesE
Ben 00:03:45
Hi, everyone. My name is Ben. Same as the words water as a noun, laugh as a verb and driven as an adjective. I like the word onomatopeia and I dislike the word hate.
Wish 00:04:03
That best describe you. I really like those. Would you like to know what I describe you as a noun?
Ben 00:04:03
I would, please
Wish 00:04:03
So Yōki, because I was like it took me like, a couple of weeks, to be honest with you, to find the right one for you. I have a lot of different angles to describe you, but Yōki is the energy from Dragon Ball Z. It's like an equivalent to Hadouken in Street Fighter with Ryu.
Ben 00:04:33
Brilliant. Yeah, I remember that well.
Wish 00:04:37
It's Yōki, so that's the simple energy from Dragon Ball Z. So there are different levels to that too, as you go along. Each character in Dragon Ball Z would have different kind of levels of Yōki.
Ben 00:04:53
That's so much cooler than me wish. Thank you so much.
Wish 00:04:57
But of course you see yourself differently than how others perceive you.
Ben 00:05:02
Very cool.
Wish 00:05:03
Do you believe in that?
Ben 00:05:04
I do, and it's just very complimentary of the organisation of the group as well. I have to be honest, that is never a lot to do with me, that's often to do with Dilpa or Todd or other people, but I like the fact I'm being credited in the collective and, yeah, I'm really pleased to have a new word to add to my repertoire. You're going to tell me the definitions of the other well, what was the other two words that you mentioned?
Wish 00:05:34
Sure. Teeming. T-E-E-M-I-N-G. So it's like to be full of something, because you're always full of something. It's not full of something negative, but for me, it's full of positive. Sometimes it's as simple as heaps of tea in a glass or in a tea cup, so it's teeming. So you're always full of energy, full of laughter, full of compassion. You're teeming for me, so it's a perfect verb for you, the way I see you. Do you get it?
Ben 00:06:09
I do, and I also like that as well. I would probably say that sometimes I can get a little overexcited and maybe overly teemed, but, yeah, I like the idea of bringing a bit more positive energy and just trying to give people always have a positive exchange. So that's what I often think about.
Wish 00:06:30
Absolutely. And the last one, my adjective is auriferous. It's a very old word.
Ben 00:06:40
You're going to need to give me the definition.
Wish 00:06:42
So auriferous is coming from the Latin word of gold. Au is gold, right. As an element, auriferous is something that's containing gold. So for me, I characterise you as having a very good heart and everybody adores you that way. So that's my adjective. Because really, every single guest that I have, it's taking me a long time, because I do take this seriously, how I describe people, especially nowadays, because when I was younger, I'm silently judgmental of everyone. I'm very critical of people, I'm very picky, so I have social friends, but I have, like, close friends and being away from Singapore for five years and having such a bad experience there (Australia) professionally. When I came back, I've come to appreciate more of what we had here, which is longer term friendships when I describe people. That's why the show is very important to me, because it's also highlighting and appreciating my guests the way I see them.
Ben 00:07:54
Well, I feel very honoured to have such thought put into those words and thank you. I really like them.
Wish 00:08:01
Well, it's you, so thank you. I would like to know, how are you guys doing in Barcelona? And how do you get so much energy? Or even how do you divide your life between two countries? How hard or easy would that be?
Ben 00:08:20
Yeah, it's good to be here now after nearly two years of being in Singapore due to the lockdown and travel restrictions, and it's just like picking up a really lovely old pair of shoes that you'd worn in. I think, coming back here, we know the restaurants, we have some beautiful friends again, we're blessed to have a great climate here as well as in Singapore. So, yeah, it's been really easy. I think it resonates what you're saying about long term friends as well, because Singapore for us is home, and when we come to Barcelona, it's just a great break. But then we're also close to the family in the UK, so it's been good. And I think we've just been so lucky to have really good friends who have commonality both in Singapore and the Barcelona. And funnily enough, we've had some that have visited us in each place, so I think now we can travel and it's not as difficult. Planes are a bit like buses again, than in part. Sometimes they're delayed or cancelled, then you have the opportunity to explore. And it's been really good so far this summer.
Wish 00:09:34
That's great. How do you strike that balance between merrymaking and work? How do you do that, since it's 100% virtual as well for you? How can you strike that balance?
Ben 00:09:48
I think it's interesting because the business, the core business, head hunting, recruitment, as long as you have a phone, a laptop, you can be really effective. And it does come down to, I think, over the years, I've probably balanced work and life to a point where it sort of interchanges. I'm not someone who works on a weekend, for example. I'm not someone that would expect others to, but it takes a bit of practise, a few failures over the years, few burnout moments, and it's not always easy. I'm very lucky that Dilpa understands that if we're travelling or in a location that's off a time zone, might have to do a very early call or a very late call. And I think having that other person, having a partner in crime, understand that's been super important. I don't think I could have it any other way now. I just enjoy the flexibility and the efficiency. And now so many other people in the last few years have gone into that world of working from home, working virtually. And I think that's the thing I constantly hear, wow, I can be really efficient. I don't have a commute. I can kind of put a lot of my life around my work or work around life, so it doesn't always work. There's a few moments I'll be at an airport or I'll be hanging outside a window or met friends for dinner and I've got to go outside on a call and they said, what are you doing 11:00 p.m.? Why are you outside? Why are you working?
Wish 00:09:48
But that's dinner time! (in Barcelona)
Ben 00:09:48
Exactly. That's the balance. But I am wearing shorts and a T shirt and I am in Barcelona, so there's a balance to it all.
Wish 00:11:25
What was the breaking point for you to say, oh, I'm not going to work every weekends anymore, or, you were really burnt out. What was that incident? Is that one incident or just a multiple one?
Ben 00:11:40
I don't think there was ever an incident. I think over the years, particularly being in a sales environment, in a revenue generating environment, kind of feels like an ultramarathon or a marathon. You kind of have to manage your energy levels and some days you just get out of balance or you have three or four months where you've really been intense and then you need to take a break. And my trigger is usually when small things, insignificant things, feel really important and create that reaction, then I know that something's probably been wound up a little bit too much in me because I'm a fairly patient person, or tried to be. So then I think it's just having the awareness to say, hey, I need to take a break, I need to go offline, I need to go have some holiday, or I need to rebalance diet, exercise. But it's sort of like until it happens, you don't know. But, yeah, again, I think the self awareness only comes from a few derailed, derailed moments and thinking, wow, why am I so angry about that? Actually, that's not really the true person. So it takes a bit of time, to be honest.
Wish 00:12:48
Right. Are we really getting older?
Ben 00:12:57
The same things annoy me now as my 25 year old self.
Wish 00:13:03
All right.
Ben 00:13:05
It just feels like there's more things flying around. I feel much more aware, whereas I think the beauty of being younger, I really don't think I had as much awareness. I don't know what you think, but it just felt like I just was worried about what was in front of me, rather than thinking about thinking about anything else. Maybe that was just me. But, yeah, as you get older, everything seems to be well, I need to worry about everything.
Wish 00:13:30
Right?
Ben 00:13:32
Is it for you?
Wish 00:13:33
No. Well, for you, I think it's innocence bliss, but I think I still went into the adult world like real world, first job at 21 onwards. I was very naive and gullible, but I am a highly ambitious woman and I have a lot of responsibilities at home. So being Filipino, it's a different set of rules. Unspoken responsibilities, like, okay, you got educated, therefore you need to give back or help someone, help your brothers and sisters, help your parents, whatever, like, support your family. And it rested on me because my siblings were not so useful in that sense. Everything rested on me. So I've got a massive responsibility from the first paycheck that I had. But I had fun. I had so much fun in my 20s. So, like, striking that balance between your responsibility and also kind of finding a way for you to also enjoy your 20s, because I've seen a lot of people who slaved away, helping their families and forgotten about themselves, and then one day they wake up they're 60 and they did not enjoy their lives. So I don't want that. So I always have vision. I just follow through in my really get frustrated when my plans deviate somewhere else, because that's what I don't understand. As you get older, you're beginning to understand that plans are made to be broken. It's there to guide you, to really drive you to go somewhere. And then eventually, if the plans change, then you adapt and then you learn something new. So that's where I was in my 20s. At least you had a better life than me, I think. Definitely.
Ben 00:15:32
I definitely think it's amazing, because knowing you for so long, I think it's amazing. The resilience and as you say, everyone has their own story, but I've always been super impressed and kind of in awe of it, of what you have achieved, and, as you say, the responsibility that you had. I definitely didn't have that kind of responsibility. So, yeah, hats off to you, for sure. You're a tough one. I know you're a tough one.
Wish 00:16:05
I have to be. But I'm really proud that I have to toughen up. I think this is another thing about we're already talking about our different ages in lives. I think at some point in our lives, it really depends on it doesn't matter what age it is. At some point we parent ourselves and then we choose. So I always believe that, okay, our parents will always try hard to embody value what to do. Don't eat that crayon, don't eat your poop and all of these things, right? And then when you're an adult or somewhat adulting, at some point you choose what values, ethics, lessons that you've learned from your parents and from your friends that you're going to take along with you. Do you believe that?
Ben 00:16:58
Yeah, I do think often about what journey the person has been on. When you meet somebody new and you do business or you connect with somebody, everybody's got so many different inputs that they've had it's just fascinating to try and understand that, but then sometimes it's almost impossible because you don't know whether that parental input actually pushed the person in the other direction or whether that group of friends kind of pulled them along. And that sort of impact and influence ones is really interesting. I mean, personally, yeah, my parents were phenomenal. I mean, I think they were quite funny. I think they just wanted me to be happy. They were not saying, you must be a doctor, you must make lots of money, or anything like that, they just said, Are you happy? And they weren't naive, but yeah, they just said, Are you enjoying what you're doing? Are you healthy? Can we do anything? And then I look at other people's parents and they would be like, wow, you need to achieve, you need to do this. I think in a funny way it made me as competitive as I would have been, but maybe more, I'm not sure. But they were just such a loving upbringing, it was really positive.
Wish 00:18:16
Yeah, that's the thing. It will always either go either way with every single individual. You can be a spoiled brat and annoying and a loser who lives in the basement still asking mum for dinner and stuff, but you didn't, you've been competitive, you chose to be competitive and be great, have your own ambitions and stuff in leading to that. You're always a fun, jolly guy, but we know that life isn't perfect and we can't always be in a joyous state. So what's the other side of Ben that I don't know yet?
Ben 00:18:59
Good question. Wish I feel like I should defer to my wife, but yeah, I think it is funny. Probably the side that has come out with friends sometimes and they always look at me in a funny way. Is it impatience? I am quite impatient and I think sticking to task, getting things done, I'm probably more get it done, get the outcome. And I think when you're on a trip with friends or you're on a holiday or something like that, it very rarely pops up, I think in work sometimes, but again, I think there's an urgency which is quite good. So, yeah, that side of impatience I don't think you've seen yet. I'm sure you will see it, it comes out sometimes, but I just like things getting done quickly.
Wish 00:19:49
But when you're impatient, how do you act it out? Where you irate, like you roll your eyes, like how?
Ben 00:19:54
Yeah, I think there's an element of the sort of passive aggression that is maybe it's quite British as well. You've heard this expression, there's some great trigger words "Oh, that's interesting"...
Wish 00:20:09
Ohhh, that's loaded.
Ben 00:20:13
Yeah, not so sure about that. I'm generalising a lot. I think that probably comes through, but never, always try and treat people the way I'd want to be treated. It is, I'd say, quite gentle, quite British. I'd probably become overly polite, overly helpful to try and help the situation along. But, yeah, I definitely like things to be done right.
Wish 00:20:39
Wow. Because I'm normally more straightforward. I can't be British most of the time. It's like, "you hand me that thing, bitch." I'm not as nice as you.
Ben 00:20:55
I think there's the inner voice and there's the outer voice. I think this is the constant backing forward. My inner voice is possibly more like your inner voice, but then it manifests in a way that I know if my parents were listening to me, they would be all proud that I had treated people in a nice way. So that's still I still have in my mind how you behave to people, that it could be put onto a Netflix series and then see a video of the way you're behaving to a waiter or a waitress or a traffic warden or someone. Am I actually proud of the way I was in that scenario? Like the Truman Show or something like that. I still think about that, and I don't know whether that's British or whether that's just a way of trying to behave, but that's definitely what my parents instilled in me, for sure.
Wish 00:21:56
Yeah. It's your value. It's something that's really your value that you've chosen as well, which is fantastic. That goes in different ways, too, because I could be a big ass bitch boss at work, but I have more patience with people personally. When it comes to servers, right. The people that serve as waiters and all of that, I show as much compassion and respect because what they're doing is hard. I always give that respect to service people. They need to be appreciated more by the society and they're not really getting that a lot. And even some of them may be a little bit annoying, especially in the F&B world. You still have to be kind of nice.
Ben 00:22:48
It's consistency as well.
Wish 00:22:50
Yeah.
Ben 00:22:51
I think when I listen to people write and talk about whether you're in your personal life or in the work life, I know it's not always possible to be completely the same in scenarios. We need to sometimes, we need to adapt.
Wish 00:23:05
Yes.
Ben 00:23:06
But I think I'd be very lucky and to be able to be pretty much myself whilst also working within the structure so that people don't feel uncomfortable. You're not overly familiar in certain environments, you're not overly formal in other environments. That is something that, again, I've taken from my upbringing and I've taken from my friends, and I feel really lucky that I can, for the majority of the time, be that way. Yeah. Which is kind of cool. I think of you like that, as well as being pretty consistent, honest, direct, as you say. You kind of call it what it is.
Wish 00:23:41
Yeah, that's good as well. It's not like I am concealing myself. I'm still being myself at work. It's just that I'm more assertive, like I'm larger than life. But it's still me. Let me say that my alter ego is Cookie Monster. That's my alter ego. So I just add Cookie Monster to the flavours that I have at work, but it's still me. It's just that as a petite Asian woman who's working globally, then you've got to be fierce enough to really voice out everything and not let anyone walk all over you. From the beginning, I was gullible and naive, and that's the lesson that I've learned. So for me to excel and really reach my ambitions, I have to step it up and bring the Cookie Monster out in the wild at work. Who's your alter ego?
Ben 00:24:37
Gosh, I was thinking the Cookie Monster is a fantastic alter ego. I'm not sure how I would beat that, but it did make me think about a conversation I was having recently around that gap between what you think is right and the data and the confidence that you have to kind of go with it and whether that got instinct. So I think maybe my alter ego is some kind of positive mental attitude, glass half full character, who we might be 51% confident in a decision or something we're going to do. But, hey, if we go into it positively and confidently, then I reckon we could make up the ground. And not to say I'm into wishing for things to happen. I think you've got to work really hard. But I do think that's quite important to positively vision and positively think about things, because then you don't leave anything on the field, you don't leave anything behind. You can then look back, even if it doesn't work, say, well, I went into it 110%, even if it doesn't work out, which sometimes that's what happens. At least you've gone into it positively.
Wish 00:25:45
Yeah. With all of these inputs, all of this wisdom that you're sharing with me, do you think that the culmination of all of these made you decide to become an ultramarathon guy? How do you call that ultramarathon-er?
Ben 00:26:03
Absolutely not. I'll tell you who's responsible for that. It is a very dear friend of mine, Matt Chapman, who, you know, he has been a mentor and a friend. We've worked together for many years. And I remember when we moved to Singapore, I actually met Matt 20 plus years ago when I was first in Singapore. Then we came back, said, hey, I'm going to do this ultramarathon in Mongolia. It's 100 kilometres, it's called sunrise to sunset. And he'd done a few of these things before and he said, you can come. Dilpa can come. We stay in Yurts. It's in the middle of nowhere. It's next to Lake Khövsgöl, which is the deepest lake in the world. You take a couple of plane rides in Mongolia, then you take a bus. Wow, this sounds amazing. But I can't run. I'm not a runner. I'm an eater. I'm an eater. I'm a wine drinker. I used to play rugby and football. But yeah, look, don't worry, we'll do the training together. So we started doing some of the training and then basically the rest is history. And from there, I think the mental switch off of the ultramarathons has always appealed to me more than the actual. I still can't run, I shuffle, I'm terrible. But having five days in the middle of nowhere with no email, no phone, you have to make some decisions around your health, well being, you're in the middle of nowhere, you're responsible for yourself, which in this time, very rare for you to really have to worry about your own sort of physical well being, in a way. Always amongst people, you always within reach of a hospital. You can always get water, you can always get food. So that was just amazing. And I haven't done anything for the last few years, but I did love the experience.
Wish 00:28:08
I remember a foot problem or a sock problem. Was that you? I kind of barely remember some of the stories when you both came back.
Ben 00:28:18
I did, yeah.
Wish 00:28:21
A toe problem, what was it?
Ben 00:28:24
Yeah, I might have accidentally had one size too small on my trainers for one of the ultra marathons in Chile. Now, it wasn't so small that I couldn't wear the trainer, but when you were in the desert so this was in the Atacama Desert, it's so hot that your feet expand, so you need room to not then get blisters. I didn't really think about that. I forgot I then got the wrong size and then I got blisters that they got infected. And on the last day I actually had to withdraw because I was pretty delirious and it turned out I had an infection in my foot. And fortunately there's medical staff there, but yeah, that was a good lesson. Always triple-check your kit and bad preparation definitely causes a problem. But this is the fifth day, I've already done 200 forms, so at least I've done most of it. But I had a pretty good reason not to finish. That one good learning, Wish.
Wish 00:29:30
Did you feel bad about not finishing because I'm not a runner? I hate running, I hate sweating in that kind of environment, I just like infrared saunas. What are the factors that drive a marathon or someone who would try to be a marathon-er? And when you don't finish, how does it feel? Does it really feel bad? Do you beat yourself up or it's okay? I mean, apart from injury?
Ben 00:30:01
So interesting, I didn't care. So my view was I had left it all out on the trail. I had an injury, I trained for it, I felt good, and it was almost something outside my control. And this is something I think about a lot in life. I can only control what I can actually control. It's like an obvious thing, but I never really get annoyed or frustrated with things that are outside of my control. So in that scenario no, I was fine. I was quite looking forward to a beer and a pizza at the hotel, to be quite honest. Yeah, that was a win for me. But having seen now, and particularly seen a company grow, Ultra X, a brilliant business, Sam and Jamie, the founders of an ultra racing business in the UK, seeing what they're trying to do around, including more people in this crazy world of beautiful places. Five days on a trail, both financially, because they've made it more cost-effective, also seeing the breadth of people who really want to yes, they want to finish. Some people are runners, true runners. Some people want to become in the top ten. But what I find really powerful on these is the camaraderie, is the feeling of achievement.
Wish 00:31:17
Yeah.
Ben 00:31:17
No one cares how long it took you. It's just being out there and achieving something that's really cool. So, yeah, there's people that just shuffle, walk and that's been amazing to see.
Wish 00:31:31
Wow, sounds wonderful. I still won't do it.
Ben 00:31:36
Why not?
Wish 00:31:37
It's really not something that I'm into, is all.
Ben 00:31:41
And it's got to be something you really want to do, because when you're out there on the training, I mean, the training as well. Yeah. Anyway, maybe leave that one.
Wish 00:31:51
Yeah, I'll leave that one. So, as adventurous you are with life, is the Ben that I know now is the same as when he was a kid?
Ben 00:32:03
Okay. I think so. I think I worry more now. And like I said, I think when you're younger, you don't know the repercussions, you don't think about mortality, you don't think about retirement. And I'm not saying that I want to retire, but you just don't have those on your mind. And I think I probably was a little bit more lazy when I was younger.
Wish 00:32:30
Don't we all?
Ben 00:32:33
Yeah. I probably didn't realise, although I always worked hard, I thought. I think then, as you get older, you see people, you start comparing and you look and you realise, wow, that's really hard work, that's hustling, that's pushing it, and then you kind of reset your boundaries. So maybe it's just getting older. But I love learning by watching people do something amazing or seeing the way they do it, and then sort of picking out things and that. When I was younger, I just didn't absorb a lot in terms of education very well. Classroom base didn't work for me, but when I saw someone do it, I was a good copycat and I would take bits that I liked and then add on to it. So, yeah, definitely a different bend to childhood.
Wish 00:33:17
Ben that was an inquisitive Ben. Then if you're a copycat, or if you're able to copy other people, that's a skill.
Ben 00:33:25
Yeah. I mean, what could I have done if I had taken a different turn? Well, I thought I was going to be a teacher. I really thought I was going to be a teacher.
Wish 00:33:35
Really?
Ben 00:33:37
Yeah, 100%. So when I came out of, well, university, I did a sports science degree, and I loved it that we got to teach or coach to our kind of peer group, played lots of sport, learn about the science. It was great.
Wish 00:33:51
Wow.
Ben 00:33:52
And then I think I really thought I was going to be a teacher and always loved coaching and supporting people, but then recruitment popped up and then I never looked back. But, yeah, I have absolute admiration for teachers, actually, as a result, so much respect for what they do. Whoever, particularly, I think, youngsters who are kind of finding their way in the world at the same time as trying to help educate them. I have a lot of friends who are teachers, and it just amazes me, the patience and the energy and what they do, and totally underappreciated in a lot of ways.
Wish 00:34:26
Yeah, absolutely. I'm very much the same looking at teachers, because thinking of a young Wish, she's so difficult. She's mostly on top of the class, but you cannot control her. She's so talkative. So thank you to all the teachers who can handle very difficult children and honing everybody's minds, because no matter how much we hated school or we hated the subjects or we're not interested with a lot of them, when you're an adult, you peg on the knowledge and you're like, oh, my gosh, I can still remember that. That was from my third grade. So there's still something that they do. It's magic. So thank you, teachers.
Ben 00:35:16
Yeah. I still remember my English teacher in school, Mr. Smith, and that's why I like the word on a matter here. I remember I was not good at all at English Literature, but I loved the stories and the creativity and imagination that I really enjoyed. And he brought it alive. I just don't know how some teachers have the patience. It's amazing.
Wish 00:35:42
Right?
Ben 00:35:42
What did a young Wish want to do?
Wish 00:35:44
I always wanted to be an artist. Always. Never veered away from it. So if you see, since I was like, what, four, five in preschool, I would always say everybody would ask you, what do you want to be when you grow up? I would like to take up Fine Arts. So I took up Fine Arts.
Ben 00:36:06
Wow.
Wish 00:36:06
So I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts. I always wanted to be an artist. I could express myself. My family is a multifamily of nurses, dentists, engineers. They're mostly science-based. I don't want to be science-based, I don't want to be maths-based. I wanted to include those two, but more in a creative way. So I'm the weirdo of the family. My dad told me at a very young age, at some point you're going to remember this, but when people tell you you're a weirdo, embrace it. It's just that you're different. They don't understand you because you're different. You have to accept who you are. It's like, okay, then that's why I never veered away from everything that I wanted, which is just being an artist.
Ben 00:36:51
I think that's very wise advice from him.
Wish 00:36:53
Yes. I miss him very much without him telling me all of these little things. Yeah, he's right. They tell you those things, you kind of understand them on the surface, and then when you get older and older, that becomes more meaningful. Right.
Ben 00:37:09
Totally. Well, now, I hope we're in a society or an age now where probably I hope so it's less for youngsters to feel that and there's more appreciation for people who think differently. That's certainly what I think anyway.
Wish 00:37:23
Yeah. As an optimist. Yes. That we're getting there. But in any progress that we make, there's always a backlash. It really depends on half full, half empty situation. Right. I think it's just important for us to be always hopeful. And speaking of hopeful, you are helping Hope International. There are so many charities in this world. How did you get involved with this particular one? Hope International?
Ben 00:37:55
Yeah. So actually, it was through a colleague, Neil, who was involved with the charity through Japan. So they have a pretty strong foundation there, and for a number of years they'd raised money. He then introduced me to the folks at home, and then we were lucky enough to go to Cambodia. Some friends actually ran in the half marathon. And then we went out to some of the projects that Hope had been supporting to effectively create what I call practical solutions to problems. So, for example, freshwater wells. Creating in areas where a handful of families are quite remote. That is a critical part for them to be able to farm and subsequently become more independent, giving micro-loans, particularly to women to be able to start businesses. And also things like buying a cow for a family that's more powerful than money or anything else. So these sorts of things which really resonated with Dilpa and I, because we do feel like it's about being practical and not trendy or too over sophisticated. It's about doing things that people really need. So I like the way that there's a combination of social work in it. So the charity actually had full time employees in Cambodia going and assessing who would be best to put the well in the community of looking at the families, talking to the families, working out who would most benefit, who would be responsible, who would be a good role model. So it wasn't just money directly given to people who asked for it. And that, again, really appealed to me and felt like almost having my mum or dad or someone that I knew support in the community. So, yeah, it's been a great journey and continue to raise money and create awareness for the charity.
Wish 00:39:39
That's wonderful. It's like teaching people how to fish, not just giving them the fish.
Ben 00:39:44
150%. I think it also has been in Singapore and I don't know whether you feel this, but it is a bit of a bubble sometimes. And there's certainly there are plenty of people in Singapore that also need help, but I think being able to do something in Southeast Asia, which is our home, really is important to us as well.
Wish 00:40:03
Well, thank you for that charity, because, yes, Southeast Asia, or Asia in general, really needed it. So every time I'm around these places, I don't take it for granted, I'm very thankful. And then when everybody's complaining about the small thing (in Singapore), I just laugh, because I was like, oh, my gosh, that's your problem here. And, yeah, just think about and unfortunately worry about other places. Right. So we just do what we can with whatever we have, really.
Ben 00:40:37
Yeah, I was going to say definitely. No, I agree. I was just thinking it is not sweating the small things when we're super lucky. I do feel very lucky, particularly in some of Singapore, I think we do have a responsibility to give back and to try and support those who aren't as lucky. Thank you.
Wish 00:40:57
Yes, that's right. I have two other things, questions that are connected. Number one is, what's the most difficult challenge you've ever faced so far in your life?
Ben 00:41:11
I think probably it was the Atacama Desert. Physically. Yeah. Just to not push beyond a certain point where I was probably going to cause myself a bit of an injury or get into a difficult situation, to just say, okay, actually, you need to call time here. And I think, mentally, that I'm quite stubborn and I'm quite resilient. So to have that internal decision was challenging. I think probably from a work perspective, there's a consistent challenge around repetition. And I think we all probably feel that sometimes in our work, that once you get to a certain experience level, it can be fairly repetitive. But that's something that, in a way, I actually also enjoy. And I kind of feel that that challenge drives me on. So there was a joke, actually, on one of the ultramarathons. They called me the diesel engine, because I certainly wasn't the fastest. I wasn't bad for the environment or anything, but I chug along, I think, with the description and never stop, but not necessarily be the fastest, probably not the efficient. How I think about it in running style, but shuffling style, and that, in work, is the way I approach it. So I think the challenge is to know exactly where your strength is and also just to keep going. That's me, I think.
Wish 00:42:39
Wonderful. But on the flip side, what was the most embarrassing thing you've ever faced?
Ben 00:42:46
Most embarrassing thing I've ever faced?
Wish 00:42:49
Embarrassing.
Ben 00:42:54
Particularly. I think this might be a British thing as well. I'm quite often self-deprecating.
Wish 00:43:01
Right.
Ben 00:43:02
And I don't have a like everyone, you get embarrassed, but I'm pretty good at making fun of myself.
Wish 00:43:10
Oh, you do?!?!
Ben 00:43:15
This is a good defence mechanism. So that if I have or do get caught in any kind of embarrassing situation, then I can hopefully dodge by making a joke of myself. So I can't think of anything that's really embarrassing. There was one silly story, but I did think that goal was a lot closer to the UK. So when I was about 18, I booked a trip with my friend. And I don't think we'd left Europe before. And I was pretty convinced that basically India was about an hour and a half away, because maybe I thought everything was an hour and a half away. And I remember saying to my mom, I booked a flight to Goa with my friend Paul to Go. Okay, that's quite a long way to go in the afternoon. We'll be there. We're there for a week, and then we'll come back. Unbeknown to me, get on the plane. It's just a little bit further. I wouldn't say it's necessarily more embarrassing now. I've retold that story, but that lived in legend in the Davies household. I wasn't the best in geography. I've got much better now. I've got much better now. But 18-year-old Ben was not sharp on that.
Wish 00:44:31
Oh, my gosh. Has someone ever made you cry?
Ben 00:44:35
I think when I've been in love, for sure, someone made me cry. No. I think it's unfortunate when people experience as you get older, people dying and loss. I think that's something that you just haven't experienced generally as you're young. For me, I was extremely lucky. Yeah. I haven't experienced it, so I think that almost comes as a double whammy. So I think in terms of emotions, I lost my father last year, and that was really tough.
Wish 00:45:17
I'm really sorry about that.
Ben 00:45:19
No, thank you. I also think how lucky I was to have not had lost a lot of other people have earlier in my life, in their lives. So for that, I'm really super grateful. At the time, I had with him and we had with him.
Wish 00:45:36
Regarding that, this is a fact. I never reached out to you or whatsoever because nobody told well, kind of indirectly, I was being told not to know about it. Okay, now you know, you don't know about it. So I was like but I wanted to reach out because I have an idea how it feels like to lose a parent. I was like, how am I going to console him? How am I going to let him know that I'm here? That I understand. So this entire time and then the first time I saw you when we're out of restrictions was at your place, and then I was just like, okay, this is not the right time. And I didn't get a queue from anyone. That okay, you know, now you're okay to know. So that's why I never reached out. But I always felt bad about that. I always felt like a bad friend, but I felt like I wasn't allowed to know.
Ben 00:46:38
Isn't it strange, though?
Wish 00:46:40
Sorry?
Ben 00:46:40
Oh, don't say that. I think it's more strange to know these situations that come up. There's no playbook. Do you reach out? I mean, again? Yeah, I think it's hard and everyone is so different that you don't want to assume that I've had it myself. You don't want to assume anything, but it's also difficult to put into words sometimes, just knowing that people, even now you're saying that really makes me grateful because you were thinking about it, thinking about me, and that in itself, that's what friendship is about and there's always times when people want to talk about things and I think it's unpredictable.
Wish 00:47:25
Yeah. And for me, having experienced how to mourn too many times in my life, I don't tell anyone who's grieving what they must feel or just those feel-good things like, oh, they must be in heaven or they're resting in peace. It's not like that because I always tell someone who's grieving, it's like, you may think that nobody understands you and that's valid. I'm just here if you need someone to just listen and not say anything and you can grieve however you want, nobody would tell you how to, nobody. So that's what I always say because we're all different people and we're all going to react to different things all the time differently because we're really like special, unique individuals. But yeah, I just wanted to tell you that I didn't mean to disclose it here, but I think it was just the right time because you mentioned your dad and I always felt bad about it because I never really mentioned anything to you at all, like, even like, oh, I'm going to give you a hug, because of that. I didn't because I thought I wasn't allowed.
Ben 00:48:35
Well, I appreciate you saying it now, so that's the important bit.
Wish 00:48:39
Okay. At least that's out. I feel better, much better about that. I cared.
Wish 00:48:39
In closing, what's the word or phrase that you can impart to our listeners and why?
Ben 00:48:50
Well, I think I'll probably go back to one of the words that I used at the beginning, and it's probably for me personally, as you said, I love bringing energy, I love laughter and I love to feel like there's one thing, it is to try and have as good a life as you can possibly have. We don't know what's going to happen in the future and I think we should always try and be as positive we possibly can. So at a minimum, let's try and have a laugh, let's try and have laughter in our lives and have people around us that we enjoy and hopefully we can bring a bit of light and positivity ourselves. So that's my thought for the day.
Wish 00:49:30
Wonderful. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. It's nice to catch up with you, although we're so far away from each other. I hope to see you when you get back.
Ben 00:49:41
Thanks, Wish. See you soon.
Wish 00:49:52
From this episode one of the most important words about life is vigour. It is the physical or mental energy and enthusiasm. It's similar to words muscle, liveliness, fervour, zeal, oomph, pep, exuberant, zest, elan. Samuel Ullman, an American businessman, poet, humanitarian and religious leader, quoted: "Youth is not the time of life, it is a state of mind. It is not a matter of rosy cheeks, red lips and supple knees. It is a matter of the will quality of the imagination, a vigour of the emotions. It is the freshness of the deep springs of life." End quote. They say we are what we eat. Well, I say we are what we thrive on, be it running an ultramarathon, learning how to crochet, or finding a way to sing in the middle of the Colosseum in Rome, or to just as simple successfully baking a pavlova without collapsing. The difference of all of these is enthusiasm or vigour that we put into something that we wanted to achieve. No, it doesn't need to be very big, just needed to be something that you wanted to finish, that you wanted to go on a journey about. And sometimes it's not even about the finish line, right? It's about how you're learning it how you're learning the process, how you're enjoying the process, and all in all, how you're enjoying the life that you're giving yourself. We have choices, fine, we have limitations too, but it is a matter of how you're going to take it. So as we move on with life, if we have enough vigour, if we have enough passion, you are going to get somewhere that you're going to be happy about. And please don't neglect yourself in giving that joy inside your heart.
Wish 00:49:52
Thank you for listening to Human thesaurus please help me rate and subscribe because your support means a great deal. Join me again next week for another episode. And while waiting, why not listen to my past few episodes? You may find one of them absorbing. I'm your host Wish Ronquillo Peacocke. Have a fantastic day and thanks for listening.
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